Comments on: Palm Pre Thoughts http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/ Robert Accettura's Personal Blog on Web Development and Tech Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:10:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: APREBELIEVER http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-631492 APREBELIEVER Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:25:43 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-631492 The author of this article to me seems to be trying to find everything wrong that he can with the pre. Seems like to me he is PRE-Judging get it, lol. I bet he is another apple die-hard who believes the Iphone will rule forever. Jerks like this author are the ones I like to prove wrong. Mr Medley will be the first one playing with a pre under his covers like a little kid in a candy store and never let you know. Its guys like him that make the word underdog a great word!! I LOVE IT The author of this article to me seems to be trying to find everything wrong that he can with the pre. Seems like to me he is PRE-Judging get it, lol. I bet he is another apple die-hard who believes the Iphone will rule forever. Jerks like this author are the ones I like to prove wrong. Mr Medley will be the first one playing with a pre under his covers like a little kid in a candy store
and never let you know. Its guys like him that make the word underdog a great word!! I LOVE IT

]]> By: Felix Plesoianu http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-598356 Felix Plesoianu Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:06:54 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-598356 @Robert Accettura I see your point. Symbian isn't as desktop-like as iPhone OS or Android, and if it's glitz you care about, you'll want one of those two. Personally, though, I care about flexibility, and a platform that allows me right off the bat to develop in Java, Flash and Python even before bothering to learn the native API - and to distribute my application any way I want - still takes the cake, even if it's technically one generation behind. Besides, I'm not convinced a more desktop-like interface is a good idea on a mobile device. People have enough trouble with the desktop interface even on desktop machines. Heck, the first netbooks had a simplified, smartphone-like interface, and look at their success! (I'm not saying it was the only factor, but it mattered.) @stevo We're not trying to make it about gaming, those rabid iPhone fans are. :P Seriously, it *is* an entertainment machine, what do you expect people to use it for? Yes, a serious gamer will want a PSP, but most people aren't serious gamers; what the iPhone can do is enough for their needs. @Robert Accettura
I see your point. Symbian isn’t as desktop-like as iPhone OS or Android, and if it’s glitz you care about, you’ll want one of those two. Personally, though, I care about flexibility, and a platform that allows me right off the bat to develop in Java, Flash and Python even before bothering to learn the native API – and to distribute my application any way I want – still takes the cake, even if it’s technically one generation behind.

Besides, I’m not convinced a more desktop-like interface is a good idea on a mobile device. People have enough trouble with the desktop interface even on desktop machines. Heck, the first netbooks had a simplified, smartphone-like interface, and look at their success! (I’m not saying it was the only factor, but it mattered.)

@stevo We’re not trying to make it about gaming, those rabid iPhone fans are. :P Seriously, it *is* an entertainment machine, what do you expect people to use it for? Yes, a serious gamer will want a PSP, but most people aren’t serious gamers; what the iPhone can do is enough for their needs.

]]> By: stevo http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-597905 stevo Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:38:34 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-597905 i dont get why people are trying to make it about gaming and mp3 player. those things are all different things when i have a nintendo ds and a psp, no way a phone as of right now is going to compare with those things. sure its an extra unit to carry around but no phone will do what a ds or a psp will do so why even talk about its gaming abilities just stupid. then you wanna add it doesnt have enough space for songs and crap and that is why i have an ipod with 120 g, sure again it would be nice to have it on my phone but no phone has that much room so stop trying to compare those things to the phone. i dont get why people are trying to make it about gaming and mp3 player. those things are all different things when i have a nintendo ds and a psp, no way a phone as of right now is going to compare with those things. sure its an extra unit to carry around but no phone will do what a ds or a psp will do so why even talk about its gaming abilities just stupid. then you wanna add it doesnt have enough space for songs and **** and that is why i have an ipod with 120 g, sure again it would be nice to have it on my phone but no phone has that much room so stop trying to compare those things to the phone.

]]> By: Robert http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-597786 Robert Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:10:53 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-597786 @Sandy: Happens to the all of us. It's Friday ;-) . @Sandy: Happens to the all of us. It’s Friday ;-) .

]]> By: Nörde http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-597370 Nörde Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:58:31 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-597370 The interface looks really cool, and of course very usable the real Palm style. I have to disagree your Symbian views as Symbian doesn't really have to care about apps being _ported_ to it. I guess it has more programs available to it still than any other platform (Palm excluded maybe?). Coding those apps could be more pleasant but still a lot of people are doing it anyway. I suppose they are more business oriented probably because of the business orientation of the whole concept of those phones (until more recently). The interface looks really cool, and of course very usable the real Palm style.

I have to disagree your Symbian views as Symbian doesn’t really have to care about apps being _ported_ to it. I guess it has more programs available to it still than any other platform (Palm excluded maybe?). Coding those apps could be more pleasant but still a lot of people are doing it anyway. I suppose they are more business oriented probably because of the business orientation of the whole concept of those phones (until more recently).

]]> By: Sandy http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-597157 Sandy Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:53:21 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-597157 Of course, I completely missed Blizzard's post saying the exact same thing. Must not comment on blogs so early in the morning... Of course, I completely missed Blizzard’s post saying the exact same thing. Must not comment on blogs so early in the morning…

]]> By: Sandy http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-597155 Sandy Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:52:09 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-597155 One small correction; Android does not require you to use their Market to locate and install applications. You can download and install apps from anywhere. You have to enable this in the Settings, but it's easy to do. One small correction; Android does not require you to use their Market to locate and install applications. You can download and install apps from anywhere. You have to enable this in the Settings, but it’s easy to do.

]]> By: Robert http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-597151 Robert Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:46:04 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-597151 @Christopher Blizzard: True, thanks for pointing that out. That sentence was originally partially focused on the word "unrestricted" in the previous sentence, and meant for discussing that iPhone and Android both employ a "kill switch", but in editing I kinda FUBAR'd completely. Who says editing makes things better? @Joe: Palm came about in 1996. Apple released the Newton in 1993. IIRC the Sharp Wizard also had third party development, and that was pre 1990. I should also note Palm didn't write their own kernel until PalmOS 4 which IIRC was late 90's. That's why there was no threading... their license with Kadak <a href="http://kb.palmsource.com/cgi-bin/palmsource.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=72" rel="nofollow">forbid them</a> for exposing tasks/threads. Yes Palm was very influential, but it's not really true that they were the first. Palm was the first with true commercial success. Windows was first to widespread desktop popularity, but that hardly made MacOS a copycat. @Felix Pleșoianu: Symbian is popular, but I wouldn't consider it on the same league in terms of being almost desktop like. It still falls in the last generation (though it strongly lead that generation, especially considering it's competition includes BREW). Generally speaking developers tend to have one hell of a time trying to port their apps over to it as there is little like it. @SHoe: Read above. PalmOS didn't have threading exposed until 4.0 due to licensing. They were hardly perfect. PalmOS developers struggled for years with sound due to each device supporting sound differently (especially between different manufacturers). That's why many games only featured sound on certain models. They do have a good track record of "allowing" third party apps, but that's also because they didn't have much of a choice. For most of their OS history, the devices weren't connected (or even aware) of the Internet. The distribution methods were totally different at the time. Even DRM wasn't where it is today. They were good times. I enjoyed them. @Hugh Isaacs II: I'm incredibly interested in what OpenMoko is doing. That said, the adoption is really early on and slow moving. Regarding developers... they had developers. New platform, new beginning. They are now in a new market. The upside is a new generation of applications. The downside is a new generation of competitors. Putting your site in an iframe with minimal browser chrome and making a desktop icon doesn't qualify as an application. The original iPhone "app store" with the web Apps wasn't either. We had a term for that, it was called a "bookmark". Widgets aren't applications either. iPhone, BlackBerry and Android didn't get where they are for running iGoogle like widgets. Palm can't expect this to save them either. @luke kenneth casson leighton: True. And that might be their saving grace. Though I wonder if a game developer who wrote a game for the PSP or another gaming device would prefer to port to the iPhone, Android or WebKit with the scripting language of their choice. I think that's going to be one of the big questions. @Christopher Blizzard:
True, thanks for pointing that out. That sentence was originally partially focused on the word “unrestricted” in the previous sentence, and meant for discussing that iPhone and Android both employ a “kill switch”, but in editing I kinda FUBAR’d completely. Who says editing makes things better?

@Joe:
Palm came about in 1996. Apple released the Newton in 1993. IIRC the Sharp Wizard also had third party development, and that was pre 1990. I should also note Palm didn’t write their own kernel until PalmOS 4 which IIRC was late 90′s. That’s why there was no threading… their license with Kadak forbid them for exposing tasks/threads.

Yes Palm was very influential, but it’s not really true that they were the first.

Palm was the first with true commercial success. Windows was first to widespread desktop popularity, but that hardly made MacOS a copycat.

@Felix Pleșoianu:
Symbian is popular, but I wouldn’t consider it on the same league in terms of being almost desktop like. It still falls in the last generation (though it strongly lead that generation, especially considering it’s competition includes BREW). Generally speaking developers tend to have one hell of a time trying to port their apps over to it as there is little like it.

@SHoe:
Read above. PalmOS didn’t have threading exposed until 4.0 due to licensing. They were hardly perfect. PalmOS developers struggled for years with sound due to each device supporting sound differently (especially between different manufacturers). That’s why many games only featured sound on certain models. They do have a good track record of “allowing” third party apps, but that’s also because they didn’t have much of a choice. For most of their OS history, the devices weren’t connected (or even aware) of the Internet. The distribution methods were totally different at the time. Even DRM wasn’t where it is today. They were good times. I enjoyed them.

@Hugh Isaacs II:
I’m incredibly interested in what OpenMoko is doing. That said, the adoption is really early on and slow moving.

Regarding developers… they had developers. New platform, new beginning. They are now in a new market. The upside is a new generation of applications. The downside is a new generation of competitors.

Putting your site in an iframe with minimal browser chrome and making a desktop icon doesn’t qualify as an application. The original iPhone “app store” with the web Apps wasn’t either. We had a term for that, it was called a “bookmark”.

Widgets aren’t applications either. iPhone, BlackBerry and Android didn’t get where they are for running iGoogle like widgets. Palm can’t expect this to save them either.

@luke kenneth casson leighton:
True. And that might be their saving grace.

Though I wonder if a game developer who wrote a game for the PSP or another gaming device would prefer to port to the iPhone, Android or WebKit with the scripting language of their choice. I think that’s going to be one of the big questions.

]]> By: luke kenneth casson leighton http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-596981 luke kenneth casson leighton Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:57:52 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-596981 Webkit is gaining language-independent bindings to its DOM model. I'm expanding pywebkit-gtk as an example, to include DOM model bindings. The implications of that are quite something. what it means is that all of these platforms that use webkit - such as Adobe AIR, Google Chrome, Palm's WebOS, Appcelerator and several more - all can be programmed not just using javascript but using literally any programming language that cares to make use of the new glib / gobject bindings. So, you could write scripts in python, or perl, or ruby, that would seamlessly manipulate Palm's WebOS. Webkit is gaining language-independent bindings to its DOM model. I’m expanding pywebkit-gtk as an example, to include DOM model bindings. The implications of that are quite something.

what it means is that all of these platforms that use webkit – such as Adobe AIR, Google Chrome, Palm’s WebOS, Appcelerator and several more – all can be programmed not just using javascript but using literally any programming language that cares to make use of the new glib / gobject bindings.

So, you could write scripts in python, or perl, or ruby, that would seamlessly manipulate Palm’s WebOS.

]]> By: Hugh Isaacs II http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2009/01/08/palm-pre-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-596909 Hugh Isaacs II Fri, 09 Jan 2009 08:40:48 +0000 http://robert.accettura.com/?p=2355#comment-596909 What about OpenMoko? (Surely Firefox could be coded for that) I'm sure there are plenty other platforms out there. and regarding Palms flaws, the OS supports plugins from partners and updates for the future so there's a good chance that we might see a sandbox for native code or something along those lines. and also about them having a hard time to attract developers, I think they already have them (I'll even try my hand at making something for the phone) though I could definitely see a lot of existing products just being ported over to this interface (maybe even just using iframes) though one argument you didn't mention, this whole HTML app thing could easily be created for the iPhone and Android (especially since Palms OS runs on WebKit) it could even be added to iGoogle, Netvibes and desktop widget engines, so I'm not sure that Palm may keep their ground here (I say they should add the Garnet VM to the OS for safe measure). What about OpenMoko? (Surely Firefox could be coded for that)

I’m sure there are plenty other platforms out there.

and regarding Palms flaws, the OS supports plugins from partners and updates for the future so there’s a good chance that we might see a sandbox for native code or something along those lines.

and also about them having a hard time to attract developers, I think they already have them (I’ll even try my hand at making something for the phone) though I could definitely see a lot of existing products just being ported over to this interface (maybe even just using iframes) though one argument you didn’t mention, this whole HTML app thing could easily be created for the iPhone and Android (especially since Palms OS runs on WebKit) it could even be added to iGoogle, Netvibes and desktop widget engines, so I’m not sure that Palm may keep their ground here (I say they should add the Garnet VM to the OS for safe measure).

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